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Monday, February 21, 2005

Terry Schiavo 

Terry Schiavo is going to die soon. Scratch that- she's going to be murdered.

She's committed no crime. She suffers from no terminal illness. She can be saved. She wants to be saved. But she's going to be killed. By doctors. Jollyblogger has an excellent summary of the situation- check him out for more.
What Terry's husband isn't telling you and what the media won't tell you is that Terry is not in a persistent vegetative state. Other doctors have seen her and have concluded that she is not in a persistent vegetative state. She still responds to stimuli, she shows joy when she is around her mother and has given the family indications that she knows her life is threatened and doesn't want to die.

You can read all about this at the website Terri's Fight.

The devaluing of life continues. We are rapidly entering a world where the high priests of science tell us who's worthy of life and who's not. A Down's Syndrome baby, who frequently will show more loyalty, more compassion, more moral judgment than a normal person, is judged unworthy of life. A person who is not yet independent of his mother is judged unworthy of life. Or just a woman who had an accident and needs medical care, but who's husband is after her money so he can go on living with his mistress, is judged unworthy of life.

Some people, some of whom have promised never to come around here anymore (oh well), will accuse me of hypocrisy because I support the war and the so-called murderous Bush administration. And to that I'd answer that if you can't distinguish between killing enemy combatants in war time, or accidental deaths in war time, on the one hand, and killing a helpless woman in a hospital bed whose only crime is difficulty expressing herself on the other hand, then remind me never to do business with you, and if you move in next door, let me know so I can put in a security system. You're clearly unable to make the most basic moral judgments.

UPDATE: More thoughts here.

ANOTHER UPDATE: For those in the comments who keep saying I've got no evidence, here's a very interesting post from a medical doctor examining the CT scan. I can't judge the accuracy of what he's saying, not being a medical doctor, but it certainly adds some question to the idea that "doctors agree" she must be PVS.

Comments:
Well said.
 
My daughter suffered a respiratory arrest on April 20, 1996. She lapsed into a coma and after three months, the doctors were anxious to pull the plug, harvest her organs before they deteriorate and allow her to die. We fought the doctors and the hospital. Today, Theresa is alive and well. Despite being confined to a wheelchair, she managed to go back to college to finish her degree.

Although the two cases may not be similar in the number of years between Terry's case and Theresa's, she is a living testimony that we never should prematurely pull the plug.

Theresa wants to fly to Florida to support the ordeal of Terry Schiavo next week. Can you please let us know who we can contact, church, support groups, etc. who can help us reach the proper authorities. We can share our story and hopefully save Terry's life.

You can reach me at (323) 258-0776. We live in Los Angeles, California.

Thank you.
 
I would like to know how many of the people that want Terry Schiavo to hang on like she has for 15 years feel about KILLING unborn babies ? This lady is not realy alive and is only kept that way with a machine. I hope that if I am ever in that condition that my family will let me die and go to a better place, HEAVEN. I would like to know who is paying for her care, the state, the family, her insurance, WHO!!!
 
Terri is only fed with a machine. That's like saying that you're kept alive by a machine since it cooks your food.

I'm against abortion too. And the whole point is, who are you to decide whether she's alive or not? She is responsive, she moves, looks around and everything. She is severely brain damaged, as I understand it. But she's not dead. You're a very arrogant person if you think you can determine that she is.
 
Give me a break. Every time I see on television this sad excuse for a life I just roll my eyes. She is long gone. Look at the brain scans of a normal brain and her's. If there is a life in there aside from the most basic things such as blood pumping I can't see it and any doctor worthy of thier degree says the same. Let the woman die. Let the husband get on with his life and somebody explain to the parents that once she had married and moved out of their house there legal stand for her life ended. Maybe they should try to live whats left of their lives while they still can. They have turned their daughter into a media freak and if she had any idea of this I am sure she would be disgusted with them. Does all this sound harsh? Well, maybe so but I can't tell you how many people I have spoken with feel the same way.
 
It must make you feel really important to be able to decide for someone else when their life is worth living. Michael Schiavo could have moved on with his life anytime he wanted to. He could divorce her and let her parents take care of Terri, but he won't. He's the one not "moving on".

So only people with "normal" brain scans deserve to live? What's your criteria of normal? Can we kill Down's Syndrome patients, coma patients, or others just because their brain scans aren't normal?
 
makes you wonder what other hidious things happen in this world that isnt broadcasted.. but as far as Terry is concerned.. this is pure murder..pure and simple
 
I work with people with disabilities every day, and I champion their causes, but in this case when I see the scan of Mrs. Schiavo's brain, I see that her cerebral cortex is all but gone. There will be no recovery, there IS no more Terri, so I pray that she is able to die soon so that she can be with her Lord in heaven.

I shake my head in disbelief that people don't take into account the enteral feeding she was taking was merely feeding a body with a brain that isn't there anymore.

Godspeed, Mrs. Schiavo, and I hope you can one day forgive those who have turned your suffering into a media event.
 
That sounds very much like a matter of opinion. I'm no doctor, but it seems to me that if all someone needs is to be fed, then there's a lot of life left there. The experts have been wrong many times before, and they're disagreed about this case.

So who are we supposed to trust? You, anonymous poster? Some judge? Michael Schiavo? There is a great deal of doubt in this situation, and when there's that much doubt in a murder trial, the man goes free. We shouldn't be so quick to end a woman's life just because we're all _pretty sure_ that she's mostly dead, and that she'd want us to do it.
 
If you knew that Terry Schiavo had completed an "advance directive" that stated that she would consider it to be unbearable to be kept alive in this condition, would you agree that withdrawal would be appropriate? If so, in the absence of a directive, should we deny this possibility or should we try to figure out what she would have wanted (this is what has actually happened in this case). Finally, if we should try to figure out what she would have wanted, should this be done by a poll of people who don't really know the facts, or by evidence presented in court (or worst of all, by a bunch of ignorant politicians in DC looking to score political points)?

If you really want to examine the facts of the case, the best information available can be found at: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

If you don't, feel free to continue to make inflammatory, ignorant comments. After all, it's a free country (though becoming less so every day).
 
So I am a liberal and I believe in choice...but you people are ridiculous. PLEASE!! It is news when the woman drools...and you all want this to continue for how long....another year, 10 years, 20 yeas....40? When does it end?

The woman is a vegetable, and like many, I don't believe she wants this to continue...Who would? I mean, honestly, what kind of life is that? I would hope that if this happened to me...someone would shoot me.

Nonetheless, this is a just a good example of how out of touch the religious right is. This isn't about "preserving life," this is about ending the misery, about respecting one's right to choose how they live....and how they end their life.

To all those that are as appalled at this as I am...remember it...on election day.
 
But this is the whole question- is she really brain-dead? Is she really in a vegetative state? The whole case of the parents is that she is not, and indeed there seems to be a good deal of evidence to that effect. All congress is doing now is giving that evidence a hearing. One judge decided she was PVS, with testimony from one doctor hired by Michael Schiavo and who is an outspoken advocate of so-called "right-to-die" cases.

But Michael Schiavo stands to benefit a great deal from her death. He has neglected her and denied her treatments and therapies that might help improve her condition, and has denied her the tests that would actually reveal what condition her brain is in.

My point is, the life of this woman was being decided on very little data and on scant legal grounds. I would not want to be kept alive if I were truly brain-dead. But I think we ought to be extremely cautious to examine all the facts before ending someone's life. Michael Schiavo has been trying to kill his wife since virtually the moment he won the malpractice settlement. And that's without even considering some of the darker speculation that's out there, that he may have been responsible for her condition in the first place.
 
Everyone here seems to be COMPLETELY missing the point. Michael Schiavo is fighting to respect his wifes wishes. She expressed to him to not want to be kept alive by machines in this sort of state - when you have a discussion such as this you have it with your spouse, because they are the decision makers, the one you share your most intimate thougths with.

Everyone wants to paint him as heartless and wanting to be rid of her - he waited 8 years before petitioning to have her tube removed, hardly a spur of the moment decision. And as for him being "after her money", she has $700,000 put into a trust to pay for medical bills, how much do you think is really left? I think that it is cruel and unusual for her to be kept in limbo for 15 years because her parents cannot let her go. Let her go home.

I only hope that this serves as motivation for everyone to have a living will - so their wishes are expressly known, so that this will never happen to anyone else.
 
So many people are saying they wish there was a living will in this case, that had Mrs. Schiavo written her wish to die down, THEN we would know what to do. Nonsense. Terri Schiavo's life does not belong to her, but to her Maker. She may not take that life any more than she may take another's life. The Lord, God of the universe, Maker of all things and Judge of all men gave her this life that she is now living and He does not give anyone, including Terri or her adulterous husband, the right to take it away. Her life is not worth living simply because her parents love her (what is she, the Velveteen Rabbit?) and it is not worthless because her husband does not. Her worth is given her by Someone Else.
 
I'm sorry, I've deleted a few comments because of vulgarity. Please keep it clean. And don't worry all- one post for, one post against, so it's nice and balanced.
 
Matt;

How is it that i read your posts and imagine you as an early-twenty-something-year-old first year law student who feels compelled to impress the world with his wit and superior intellect within the contrived, anonymous world of this blog, where you are clearly manipulating the conversation and debasing those who disagree with you with what only amounts to self-contradicting declarations of your own bias and your clear inability to examine this issue with any objectivity.

Terry Schiavo is not being murdered, nor is she being "executed" because she "has difficulty expressing herself," as you also suggested. How you've managed to draw the conclusion that her death will somehow be akin to being executed for a crime is beyond me, but inaccurate, as are the statements immediately following such as; "she suffers from no terminal illness," "she can be saved," and my personal favorite, "she wants to be saved." While she may not have an illness, per se, her condition is certainly terminal - unless you believe that having your cerebral cortex shrivel up and be replaced with CSF isn't a terminal condition. And what do you mean by "she wants to be saved?" Really? Do you know that? Did she tell you that? Because if she has, you ought to let someone know, being that this is at the crux of the entire issue, and had we all known that for certain, we could have saved 10+ years in arguing this issue. You manage twist the words of other people and you've commented on the presumptive conclusions that others have drawn, and yet you can make a statement like that??? i'm sure you'll sort it out or somehow edit what i've written in an effort to dismiss or rebuke my thoughts and aggrandize yourself even further.

And what are you presuming when you said "what terry's husband isn't telling you and what the media won't tell you....etc...." Again, really? Do you know her husband is lying? Do you know the media is lying? Have you seen the scans of her brain or have you possibly examined her yourself? No wonder you feel so compelled to make 20 posts per day on this issue - clearly you're the expert, and it's growing more and more apparent to me now that this poor soul has been conspired against and everyone involved, except her parents and the religious right, are lying to cover something up.

Or could it just be that this an example of how a private family matter has been blown out proportion and an innocent person is being used as a pawn in a much grander political debate? Terry Shiavo, for all intents and purposes is dead. She died and was not fully resuscitated and as a result, suffered profound and irreversible brain trauma. She does not show emotion, she does not feel pain, etc...What "behavior" she does exhibit are responses to stimuli - ameoba can do similar tricks - and that is not to say that i'm comparing her to that or that I don't value life - I, in fact, do value life, and the dignity of an individual - Terry Schiavo has been robbed of her dignity and should be allowed to die. While Terry's mother may claim that her responses are purposeful, many experts in neurology have argued otherwise, since those responses do not seem to happen with any pattern - i.e., they are not controlled - and before you bring up the tape of Terri responding to her mother, keep in mind, that that same tape was the tape the neurologists based their opinion on - the original is over 4 hours in length - what has been leaked to the popular media only amounts to a matter of minutes - the few minutes where it would seem that purposeful behavior is evident.

How exactly are we "rapidly entering a world where the high priests of science tell us who's worthy of life and who's not"? I would say, that if anything, advances in medical science have broadened the scope of care. And what point were you trying to make by saying that "A Down's [actually it's 'Down Syndrome'] Syndrome baby, who frequently will show more loyalty, more compassion, more moral judgement than a normal person, is judged unworthy of life."??? What does "loyalty, compassion, and morality" have to do with this? and again, you're presuming things. In what medical text did you read these characteristics and how do you presume to make the comparison between the characterists of an individual with Down and a "normal" person? and who is judging these children unworthy of life? and i'm not even sure what the point of your next example was, but clearly you're misinformed and trying distract from the real issue. So what if Terri is more loyal, more compassionate or more moral than the rest of us? She's also a vegetable! I realize that was blunt, but the point is, so what? Who makes medical decisions based on character anyway? Do you know how many of us would be dead right now if the ER doctors or paramedics were allowed to dispense care based on personality traits?

Of course there are a lot of distractions in this case and a lot of hateful things being said to people and/or about people who aren't even, in any capacity, related to the case, except that they're nosey. This will impact all of us in the sense that it will set some sort of precedent in our court system. Of course the most obvious thing we could all learn from this is that if we have such strong opions about the issue, will we do anything about it? - i.e. get a living will? - and then perhaps, remove ourselves from a debate that doesn't involve us and let a family that has already been through enough sort this out privately? I hate to be presumptive, but I'm going to guess not - if I were to bet on it, I would guess that when this is all over, the majority of Americans who feel so passionately about this issue, and who have made it a point to make themselves heard won't bother to get a living will drafted - and then what have we learned?

For the love of God, let's all resolve to learn from this tragedy and get living wills - then we won't have this argument again, we can mind our own affairs and keep the medical decisions of people we don't even know off of the six o'clock news, and Matt Powell will have more time for law school!
 
SWH,
Thanks for your extensive comments, and I haven't edited them at all, despite your assumption that I would. You made quite a number of baseless assumptions in your post there as well, which are mostly not really worth responding to.

About the Down's Syndrome babies- parents routinely abort such babies, judging them to be not worthy of life. I wasn't saying they were being judged on the basis of their character, I was saying that despite their frequently exemplary character, they were being judged based on some person's arbitrary decision on what made a life worth living. This is what I object to. Your request for what "medical text" I read this from is totally asinine. I don't need a medical text to tell me what the worth of a human life is. I don't need to be a doctor to perceive someone's character.

As for your claims about the Terri Schiavo case, your assumptions are exactly what's being contested. If she's brain dead or PVS, there's no discussion. A lot of people think she isn't, though, including her family. Are you saying her family doesn't have the right to use every legal means to protect their daughter? Are you saying that Congress has no jurisdiction over the federal courts?

The statements I made about the facts of the case come from sources, widely available, which seem to me to be credible. Her family believes that she communicates with them. And there are many doctors who disagree that she is brain-dead. She has never had an MRI or PET scan, which would be the scans, I am told, which could really determine the state of her brain. One judge made a finding of fact which many feel to be erroneous, and there is a reluctance on the part of other judges to dispute a finding of fact, which is why Congress directed the federal court to review the case De Novo, meaning reviewing the whole thing again and not relying on previous findings of fact. The fact that one judge is unwilling to admit the possibility that he made a mistake is not at all hard to believe. But the fact that so many people are anxious for this woman to die without examining such a possibility is very hard for me to believe, though I see the evidence of it right here.

And incidentally, I've posted two articles in several days, along with some comments- hardly 20 per day. And there is nothing even slightly anonymous about this blog. I use my real name, and any research into the facts would reveal that I am a Reformed pastor in Limon, Colorado. On the sidebar is a link to my church which will give you my phone number and mailing address. So you've demonstrated a lack of the most rudimentary research ability right there, and I and other readers will therefore be suspicious of the rest of your claims.

But thanks for reading.
 
Seems that since there is not a living will (my wife and I both have one), there is no 'legal' way for Mr. Schiavo to end the life of his wife, no matter what his or our opinion may be.

To swh, who posted above and said, "What does 'loyalty, compassion, and morality' have to do with this?"

Those attributes have everything to do with this - (although not in the context of Down Syndrome)

Loyalty - yes, Mr. Schiavo was a loyal husband - at one time. When did that committment cease? Why did it cease? The road got rough - very rough - and he bailed. This is not a judgement, simply an observation based on his current life. We don't always get to choose our futures, but we do have to choose what we stand for. You may ask "Well, is he expected to spend the rest of his days married to someone in her 'condition'"? The answer is simply - Yes. That's what marriage means.

Compassion - I agree, it would be a compassionate act to relieve one of such a tragic circumstance, if indeed there was unquestionable proof the person had desired such an act be carried out, or if there were no doubt as to the person's state of being. Neither exist here. As the situation stands, it's the word of a seemingly somewhat exasperated husband, who does not have any documentation from his wife, fighting with his inlaws to end the life of their daughter.

Morality - some say and teach that morality is relative to one's surroundings and current situation. I disagree - wrong is wrong and right is right. Mr. Schiavo's choice (not Mrs. Schiavo's) is simply wrong.

Last thought -
This sad issue illustrates one of the crumbling foundations of our country; smaller and smaller numbers of Americans genuinely regard marriage vows as sacred commitments - between each other, AND between themselves and God.
 
I am so saddened about Terry and her family's plight. It is wrong to kill this woman. I am pro-life. I don't think of myself as a radical. I have compassion for all involved. And yet some things have struck me as funny. I heard him this morning making reference to what congress has done and that they ought to be ashamed of themselves. Well I am not making judgements, I don't blame him but the fact remains that Terry is his legal wife and he has had an affair while she is laying "in a coma state" and has went on with his life and had two children by a common law wife. Maybe he ought to be ashamed of some of his personal decisions. I heard him saying adamantly that Terry would not want to live like "this". I thought to myself I wondered if she would have wanted him to live with another woman and have children. Like I said I don't blame him for moving on, no one could. But I do blame him for not doing things in the proper manner. He needed to let go of Terry himself many years ago and let her family stand up to the plate. He accuses them of not letting go but in a way he isn't able to either. Her family has certainly experienced her death of sorts 15 years ago when she ceased being their beautiful young daughter. There are many kinds of death in our world and it isn't all about a physical death. It seems to me that her siblings and parents have let go of the old Terry and want to love and care for Terry as she is now. Also I heard that she battled eating disorders most of her life. How ironic that this young girl will now be starved to death.
 
I say let her die with some sort of dignity and not all of this fighting. I empathize with her parents, but no parent ever actually knows what their child really wants. And if they think they do, it's generally just what parents wants to believe. I know I wouldn't to be in Terry's position...but then I have a living will...and to the poster who mentioned an "eating disorder"in Terry's past, you're just SO looking at this from you're own arguably wrong point of view...don't project your issues on what is going on!
 
Without machines and technology Stephen Hawkings would be forced to die, just like Terry Schiavo. He can't communicate without the aid of a machine. He would just lay on the bed rolling his head from side to side. Funny how we determine the worth of life. Is somebody productive? Do they have a quality of life? When they come up with the chart how many people are considered brain dead during football season? I have no memory of my birth or the days following after. Does that mean I was not self aware? Could my mother and father requested I be placed into a room to starve to death because they didn't see any "life" in me? Does this mean doctors should stop treating cancer because that would extend a life unnaturally? Deaf mutes don't have a quality of life. Helen Keller didn't, until she was taught how to communicate. Severe cases of mental retardation don't have a quality of life. We are entering a dangerous era. Science is taking us too far, and our morals cannot keep up.
 
Ruby de Vera - Terry's NOT in a coma...PAY ATTENTION TO *ALL* OF THE NEWS. She is in a vegetative state from which court appointed doctors state that she will not successfully recover from. The media is, unfortunately for her, always running clips of this poor woman "interacting" with her family. Yes, she may open her eyes, but that's because her body is awake. She can't follow someone across the room, she cannot really acknowledge someone's presence. I'm happy for you, your daughter and your family, but these are two very different issues.
 
I personally think this is crazy. How can anyone besides God decide when a person should live or die. Unless Terry has specified that she didn't want to live this way, than it is not right. As far as I understand she has somewhat indicated to her family that she doesn't want to day. Look at some of their family videos, you can tell that this is a person, just as a baby growing in a uterus, or Aids victims, Cancer victims, people with something as simple as allergies. All of these people have to live different live. Take different precautions. A pregnant women has to take better care of herself for her baby... Aids victims have to take medicine everyday. Cancer victims have to take medicine everyday. All of this makes people differt. That is all Terry is is different. Why should she be murdered because she is sick. I say go out there and focus on the people who murder our children. Who do things that are way worse than being sick. Let Terry Live. I think her husband should be ashamed. How could he not stand beside her. Encourage her to get better. If he doesn't want the problem....divorce her. Let her family take care of her. They really want to. They want to do things to improve her living conditions...not kill her...LET TERRY LIVE!!!!
 
Wow, it's amazing too me how hostile and angry people get when this is something that doesn't even personally affect their life.

One thing that is sad is that people don't know all the facts. For one, Terry is NOT in a vegitative state. She breathes on her own, she responds, she simply cannot swallow food on her own; thus, they are removing her feeding tubes. Starving her to death. To say it is anything other than that is pure ignorance. They are starving her to death.

It's not a matter of her being on a respirator and they take her off and she dies a couple of hours later. It's a matter of them not giving her food and water so she will starve.

I agree with whoever it was who said it is "barbarism." It makes me literally ill every time I read or hear of it. I feel that I am right now watching and hearing of a murder.

Her husband did "move on," years ago when he found himself a girlfriend, had children with her, and decided to deprive Terry of therapy, light, music, visitors. It's very hard to say how well she would be or could be doing right now, because he has deprived her of many things. Even me as a healthy person, if I were deprived day after day of light, music, and other sensory stimulation as well as people, I would become unhealthy. He has deprived her of all these things.

He has openly admitted that when she dies, he will marry his live-in girlfriend. Why doesn't he just divorce his wife? If she really is a "vegetable" (like so many people seem to think), then let him divorce her and let it be something her parents deal with.

How anyone believes he has her best interest in mind is beyond me. He is engaged to be married to another woman right now. And, as soon as Terry dies, both he and his lawyer will receive the millions of dollars that should have been spent on Terry's therapy, but weren't.

Also, when this first happened, Michael was a "loving" spouse. BUT when the money was awarded, that was when he suddenly "remembered" that she supposedly wouldn't want to live like this. That was when he began to fight for the ending of her life.

Doesn't it strike anyone besides me as very suspicious that a husband would fight so hard, tooth and nail, for his wife to die?!

There have been allegations that he abused her while married, he had an ex-girlfriend that he dated a year after Terry's collapse who feared him and said that he "stalked" her and frightened her and that in conversation he said, "How the heck should I now. We are young!" when the girlfriend asked him about whether or not Terry would want to live like she is.

The whole thing is absolutely sickening. It is absolutely nothing less than murder.

I fully agree with what President Bush said, that in such a case as this it is wise to err on the side of life.

HEAVEN FORBID that she is allowed to die and that all along her husband was abusive and truly is simply wanting the money. HEAVEN FORBID!!

There has never been any investigation into this. Currently, there have been no brain scans run. Her husband and his lawyer won't allow these things. They won't provide her with speech therapy. Maybe he is afraid of what'd she'd say if she could talk. Of course, if he had provided those things, it would take away from the money that he will get when/if she dies.

I pray that God intervenes and saves her life. And please to those who don't know the facts, understand that she is NOT in a vegatative state. At leat get that one fact straight if not the others.
 
I believe that Michael Schivo is literally trying to legally murder his wife. There is NO living will. Nothing in writing. NOTHING. Here is a man with a fiance who he's had two kids with (someone please explain how you can be both married and have a fiance at the same time!? SICK!) and it's basically his word vs. the parents. How does anyone in this world know what she really said?! There hasn't even been any investigation into allegations of abuse on Michael's part that some believe led to her collapse (doctors found on xrays evidence of broken bones on Terry after her collapse). And isn't it strange that Michael didn't "remember" his wife's wish to die until he had millions of dollars to gain?!

I wish there would be an investigation into him before anything else was done because I truly believe that he has wanted his wife dead for quite some time because he will gain millions of dollars, he will appear the "poor" victim, and he will then marry his fiance and can wipe his hands of it all.

It is absolutely heart-breaking and tragic. There are no words to adequately describe how utterly mortifying it is that right now a woman is starving to death. I simply cannot even fathom that this is "okay" in the court's and her husband's eyes. She breathes on her own, she functions, she responds, she laughs, she cries, but she cannot eat or drink by herself because she cannot swallow. So they are depriving her of food and water. Literally killing her, just waiting for her to die basically.

There are truly no words but I absolutely cannot believe this is happening. I am ashamed to be a citizen of a country that okays this.
 
All this talk about her husband being a murderer... have you people no sense?
For a start, her heart attack occured because she was suffering from a serious eating disorder... she did not want help for that then, and while she may not have wanted to die, she would have had some clue that she was putting her life in danger by continuing with such behaviours and not asking for help.
If she is not in a vegetative state, and if she would have wanted to live like this, why have two courts found otherwise? Even when her parents tried to argue that while she may not have wanted to live like this before the accident, new information and technology would have changed her mind, the court still ruled in her husband's favour.
Her husband is simply trying to respect the wishes of his wife. Of all people, who would know her better than him? Think about your own life- who do you share more with, your partner or your parents? In almost every case, it is the partner...
Everyone is talking as though it's some sort of crime that he has moved on... it has been 15 years, and he has evidently realised long ago that his wife is not coming home, even if her parents fail to acknoweldge this. The man should be applauded for continuing to stand up to them and fight for what he believes to be his wife's wishes, rather than walking away, divorcing her and continuing with his life. Think about how much can happen in 15 years- how can we say that he does not care about her simply because he's decided not to let this tragedy ruin another life?
What would you want done if you were her? Would you want to live in that situation, even if you did have moments of awareness (and the best one can argue is that she has such fleeting moments- though highly unlikely given the deterioration of her brain)?
Terry's life is already lost and it is the selfishness of her parents and those who follow moral code simply for the point of following moral code (and failing to critcally assess their own opinions) who are prolonging the hell felt by all in this case.
 
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Mel,
Again, like many others here, you're basing your decision on pure speculation, on things that have never been proved. It's never been shown that Terri had an eating disorder. We have only Michael's word for most of what happened to her, since he has made it very difficult for a proper diagnosis to be done. We have only his word that she would want to die if she was in this condition. And he stands to benefit a great deal if she does die.

All we're asking for is a proper airing of the facts. All we're asking for is that the tests be done, that more than one doctor who is a euthanasia activist be allowed to testify as to whether she is PVS, whether she might improve with therapy, etc. IF she's truly brain-dead, I don't think most Terri supporters would object. I wouldn't. But that's the whole question. And if it's so incontrovertible that she's brain-dead, why won't her husband permit her to have an MRI or a PET scan? Why won't they test her to see if she can eat soft foods on her own? Why is he so afraid of any additional information?

You people that come here slinging around the same unproved assertions over and over (she's brain-dead, nothing can be done) really ought to do some research on the case before you make accusations of ignorance and bias.
 
And where are your "facts" coming from, Matt? From the websites sponsored / supported by Terri's family? I can't believe how narrow-minded and opinionated you are and how you purport to have some sort of expertise in research. How on Earth can you say that her eating disorder is undiagnosed and based on speculation from her husband? The misdiagnosis of the potassium imbalance, caused by the eating disorder, was the basis for the malpractice settlement that you seem to think her husband is willing to kill her for. And perhaps he isn't willing to have her subjected to a swallow test or another scan because she shouldn't have to endure anymore tests - her higher mental functioning capacity was reduced to nearly nothing 15 years ago - it's not going to come back - do you honestly believe that her doctors would resort to something as invasive as tube insertion if they thought she could swallow on her own? You are clearly biased in this issue, as you continue to demonstrate through labeling of others comments as "not worth responding to" or some similar assessment, which is really a shame, since that only reinforces my belief that church leaders are narrow-minded, opinionated, self aggrandizing science/MD haters who will stoop to name calling, stereotyping, and labeling of those who may have a different opinion or exercise a method other than blind faith to arrive at their opinions.
 
Well...
If she's brain-dead, why is it a problem for her to "endure" any more tests? A carrot doesn't "endure" anything when you put it in the soup.

As far as where I'm getting my info- lots of places. Yes, the Schindlers' site, but also NRO, the Weekly Standard and others. I've read the affidavits of nurses who saw her swallow solid food. I've read the statements of neurosurgeons who say it's abolutely criminal to diagnose someone as PVS when a PET scan or MRI has never been done. I didn't snap to judgment on this, like you have of me.
 
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IT DOESN'T SAY ANYWHERE THAT WE AS A SOCIETY CANNOT TAKE CARE OF TERRI, WE TAKE CARE OF THE PEOPLE WHO CHOSE THE DRUG SCENE, OR CHOSE TO DRINK. THESE ARE PEOPLE WE AS A NATION TAKE CARE OF
THAT MADE A WRONG CHOICE. TERRI DID NOT CHOOSE THIS CONDITION AND IS ONLY BE KEPT ALIVE BY A FEEDING TUBE, NOT A RESPIRATORY MACHINE OR
OTHER HEART MACHINE. SHE RESPONDS TO FACES AND VOICES. PULLING HER FEEDING TUBE TO ALLOWING HER TO DIE A SLOW DEATH IS PLAIN AND SIMPLE MURDER!
 
She is a vegetable, let the poor woman die. Mike has suffered enough, just think, 15 years of life like that, Mike
has suffered long enough, let him get on with his life
 
Personally, I think that the majority of what i have read and the controversy that i have witnessed throughthe media and others' opinions is missing the point. I as well as many do not wish to ever be in the situation that Terry Shiavo is in, and if i ever am, i do not wish to be kept alive as she is. However...it doesn't matter what WE want, or how badly we may feel about her circumstances. The fact of that matter is that allowing her feeding tube to remain disconnected/removed is allowing her to STARVE TO DEATH. This is the key, and the reason why i believe her parents are so against letting her die.
I have read the contradicting diagnoses from her (and other doctors whom have never physically examined Schiavo in person) and I believe that not only is she CLEARLY not in a coma,as the definition of coma is: "A deep prolonged unconsciousness where the patient cannot be aroused," and she is also not brain-dead. Brain dead (as i understand it) would mean NO movement whatsoever, also she would not be able to perform unconcious reflexes such as blood pumping and breathing. As for a "vegetative state", i have heard this phrase used quite alot during this case, and i do not know that it is necessarily being used correctly every time. (I wonder if anyone can find a definition of "vegetative state" please let me know, as i have been looking for one. )
I have seen the photos of Terry Shiave all over the media, and honestly all she is is severely retarded at this point.
There are many people in this world who suffer from severe retardation, and their families never decided to just STOP FEEDING them. If they did, they would go to jail...why? because it is AGAINST THE LAW to murder someone. And that's exactly what they would be doing if the courts ruled for Shiavo's feeding tube to remain disconnected. Allowing her to starve to death would be no different than deciding that an infant would not want to live anymore and stop feeding it. I have heard over and over, that the feeding tube is the only thing keeping Schiavo alive right now, and by removing it, she would be "allowed to die peacefully". Well frankly, the only thing keeping you and I alive right now is that we continually nurish our bodies as well. If you or I stopped eating, we would die too. Try not eating or drinking anything for 3 or 4 days, and i hardly think that you would consider that "peaceful".
No matter your religious beliefs, my religious beliefs, or Terry Schiavo's religious beliefs, denying a human being food and water so that they die is MURDER. And no matter how you look at it, murder is wrong.
 
Terry Shiavo is not your daughter. Terry Shiavo died long ago.

Your daughter's brain survived - Terry's brain did not. The upper cortex of Ms. Shiavo's brain has died. It has been reabsorbed and replaced with spinal fluid. There is nothing left that even remotely resembles what Terry Shiavo used to be.

Once there was a person known as Terry Shiavo; she was loved by those who knew her; and she loved them in return. But she is gone now. It's time to let God embrace our sister, and release her from this hellish torment.
 
You people keep coming and saying that, but saying it doesn't make it so. Many people have profound doubts that she is in a vegetative state at all, and she most certainly isn't brain-dead, or she'd need a machine to breathe for her.

But you people keep telling yourself whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
And another thing- if she's brain-dead, there's no hellish torment. She feels nothing, and is already with her maker. If she feels torment, then she's not dead, and she's being murdered. Can't have it both ways, folks.
 
Anyone who believes Mrs. Schiavo won't feel anything while she is conscious, breathing on her own, and being STARVED TO DEATH, you need to read this -
Kate Adamson's story

You might check this out too -
"Starving to Death Is a Walk in the Park"

Really? Then the problem with world hunger is no longer a problem (at least if Dr. David A. Goldstein's assumption is correct).

You figure out what I mean -
 
You know this whole thing is horrible. This is pure and simple murder. I understand that her husband would want to fill her wishes, but I don't believe these are her wishes. He says he loves her, well if he loved her still as a husband should love his wife he wouldn't have a girlfriend/fiance and two kids with. Granted, lots of people would move on in these situations, I wouldn't, but some people would choose to. Fine, choose to do this, but also realize that you don't have this person's best interest at heart anymore and sign the rights over to the person/people that do. Her mother and father. How should he have any say over what happens to her when he is committing adultery? Furthermore, if it was her wish to die, isn't there a better way to handle this situation than to starve/thirst her to death. Even animals that get put to sleep are killed in more humane ways. I have seen the videos of Terry responding to her family. She makes facial expressions that fit the moment. How can that be someone who doesn't know what she is doing? You can't tell me that some part of this women isn't still there. People think about your daughter, wife, mother, sister, even friend...would you want her to die in such a horrible way. Or, even better, would you want to die in such a horrible way. I beleive in God just as much as any christian...but some of these people on here I have heard saying let her go to God....IF GOD WANTED HER SHE WOULD ALREADY BE IN HEAVEN OR IS ALREADY THERE!!!! AND YOU SAY THERE IS NO WAY SHE CAN COME OUT OF THIS...WELL I BELIEVE WITH GOD ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE AND MIRACLES CAN STILL HAPPEN. WE AS HUMANS DO NOT GET TO DECIDE WHEN LIFE COMES AND GOES...ONLY GOD DOES. THIS IS DECIDING LIFE, SAME AS ABORTION OR MURDER....IT IS ALL MURDER!!!! HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSAND THAT!!!! I COULD NEVER EVER STARVE MY KID TO DEATH OR MY HUSBAND. I WOULD STAND BY MY HUSBAND OR KIDS SIDE AND FIGHT FOR THEIR LIFE EVERYDAY.

It may be selfish of me, but even if my husband had just told me that he wouldn't want to live that way....I think that if I had any hope that he was still there I would keep trying anyway...because I love him enough to be that selfish....to want him with me that bad....so I am sick of her husband talking about love...once again if he loved her he wouldn't be with someone else. Blaming Terry for this saying she was making herself throw up and that is why she is like this....so what if it is....I would still stand beside her....I would still send her to therapy no matter what the doctors said...they are only human too...they can't be right all the time. But, the courts are going to let this women die... It isn't right. Please people pray for the right thing to happen for her to have a miracle and pull through this or go to heaven without the pain these people are causing her. I pray to you God that your will will be done. And if her husband is lying about all of this, may your will be done there too!!
 
"It may be selfish of me, but even if my husband had just told me that he wouldn't want to live that way....I think that if I had any hope that he was still there I would keep trying anyway...because I love him enough to be that selfish....to want him with me that bad....so I am sick of her husband talking about love...once again if he loved her he wouldn't be with someone else."

"And if her husband is lying about all of this, may your will be done there too!!!"

So you're in a position to judge people, Chrisie? Your remarks are awfully self-righteous and judgemental - how very Christian of you.
 
I never stated I was perfect by any means...matter of fact I called my self selfish...which I am and would be. And if you think being a christian means being perfect and non-judgemental all the time...than you are very wrong
 
Clearly.
 
you would be a tad bit more helpful if you said more than just "clearly" that could mean a lot of different things.
 
and further more, if you really believed in this cause why remain anonymous. I believe that if you really believe in something you wouldn't be worried over you name being displayed with what you wrote.
 
Man some of you are way over the top. First of all, after well over a decade, her husband should've moved on. It doesn't mean that he never loved her, or still doesn't, it means that he is acting like a normal healthy human being.

Parents tend to be selfish when it comes to making decisions like this; I think it comes down to the whole "my child dying before me" dilemma. Many parents cannnot cope with losing their child and hang on to false hopes and want them alive for their own sake.

Michael loved Terry enough to make sure her wishes were carried out. She has been in a PVS for 15 years; none of us are there so I'm trusting the doctors that work with her to make that diagnosis. This hasn't been a few months where she may be able to "come out of it".

I would hope that my husband would also fight against my parents if I were living in a way he knew I would disapprove of such as this. I also hope that he would move on after so many years, but always lvoe and remember me as well.

I'm certainly not claiming that Michael Schiavo is perfect, but I think he's doing what needs to be done. This is NOT about her parents and what they want, but her needs and wants.
 
No one has the right to end someone's life. God says that we aren't to kill people, but that's exactly what is happening to Terry Schiavo. people are saying that "she won't ever live normally" and that "she should die peacefully", but who are we to choose who will live and who will die? that isn't our decision, but God's. if Michael Schiavo really cared about her he would have stuck by Terry no matter what. aren't the marriage vows "...in sickness and in health...in good times and in bad" Michael isnt honouring those vows by choosing to end Terry's life. i just keep praying that God will intervene.
 
No one has the right to end someone's life. God says that we aren't to kill people, but that's exactly what is happening to Terry Schiavo. people are saying that "she won't ever live normally" and that "she should die peacefully", but who are we to choose who will live and who will die? that isn't our decision, but God's. if Michael Schiavo really cared about her he would have stuck by Terry no matter what. aren't the marriage vows "...in sickness and in health...in good times and in bad" Michael isnt honouring those vows by choosing to end Terry's life. i just keep praying that God will intervene.
 
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